May 5, 2022·edited May 5, 2022Liked by Mari, the Happy Wanderer
I agree with 99% of this, and you've described the problems well. But your case against eliminating student debt seems to be 1) it just makes the banks whole and doesn't address the underlying problems, and 2) here are all of the things we should do instead.
Given the actions pondered by the administration right now, perhaps you are right.
But to really fix things, what needs to happen is that all student loan debts be forgiven, and the creditors (banks and government) be forced to write them off.
This would require legislation, but it could be a very simple law.
All of the myriad changes you suggest would then follow, but rather than requiring numerous legislative actions, they would be worked out in the markets and politically over time as the system adjusted to what is essentially a decoupling of debt and education.
Your citation to Deuteronomy hints at one of the fundamental problems we have, namely our whole system's reliance on debt with compound interest. There is wisdom in the ancient prohibitions against usury, and we probably should count amongst our original sins the construction of a world heedless of that.
Specifically here the problem is debt with no underlying collateral. (The case for commercial debt and for purchases like housing are much stronger.)
The proposal by the Biden administration would help a few on the margins (low income people for whom 10K would have a material benefit), and for that reason alone, I'd take it as something better than nothing. Politically it will undoubtedly backfire as people perceive it as taking from the poor to help the rich (although it does neither), but at this point I have no concern for the political prospects of the Democratic Party.
I'm sure my suggestion will never happen, but I'm just as sure that your proposals will also never happen (or to the extent they do, they won't play out as intended). So if we are going to discuss hypotheticals we should talk about the real problem which is simply a political struggle between banks and the people at large.
One the issues right now is that we're in an inflationary period. A lot of people have their brains stuck in the Great Recession, where we needed to put any spending out there we could to put the economy back on track. I would have supported more forgiveness then, since it would have been something. But, right now, the economy is at its a capacity. Any additional spending will increase prices without increasing output. So forgiving loans to help people a buy, for instance, would just increase the price of homes, which doesn't seem very progressive.
As for the credential inflation, it seems like the best solution is to stop printing the credential. I would love a German-style system where a much smaller proportion of the population can attend college.
May 5, 2022·edited May 5, 2022Liked by Mari, the Happy Wanderer
Lots of interesting stuff here.
I agree that a lot of people feel compelled to get a degree because so many jobs that never used to require one …often now require one, such as administrative assistant. I like your idea of incentives for employers who don’t play that silly game.
On the other hand, it’s become something of a requirement for office work, such that everyone who applies has a bachelor’s degree at minimum and often a master’s of some kind. The people who don’t have anything are often not the “go-getters”— and therefore, while there’s nothing in the nature of the work that requires higher education, the person who pursued a degree or two is viewed as a “typical worker” and the person who “only” completed high school is viewed with suspicion. Why didn’t they continue in school?
And to be fair, most people who choose not to pursue an education are _not_ like the young man you mentioned who took his college fund and did something else with it. (Very cool by the way.)
Add this wrinkle: the online diploma mills. At my workplace, among the administrative staff, there are a _lot_ of people pursuing master’s degrees or even PhDs from online schools and one can’t help but wonder how those expensive degrees are helping anyone do their jobs, except to make them look better educated when they want to move up. But indeed, it seems to work that way. Don’t you want to hire a PhD, even a diploma mill one, as opposed to a high school graduate? It seems a lot of people do.
I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m hiring, if a candidate has a diploma mill degree, that’s a ding against them.
But…all that being said, I still think everyone, whether they want to pursue a trade or get a traditional college education, should be prepared by society to enter the world of work without debt.
You know infinitely more than I do about universities in Europe. But I do know that what provides value in the college experience isn’t the pretty campus and the gym and the increasingly nice dorm rooms. What provides value is the education. So, if it’s fair to say that European universities are more spartan/utilitarian, then so be it. That’s a trade I’d gladly take for our American kids.
On the other hand, I’m not a fan of “knowing what you want to study” ahead of time. A lot of kids do know, but a lot don’t. Then again, the huge UC system in California requires that kids apply and be admitted to a specific major, after which it’s very hard to switch.
I don’t like it, but again, it’s a trade-off I would accept (spartan universities, applying to a particular major) in exchange for a debt-free education for every American who wants it.
Very thoughtful and challenging article. I think a great place to begin is honoring our commitment to the kids who signed up for public service. It's a disgrace so few have received the forgiveness they deserve. Why oh why is it so hard to implement the laws we pass in a manner that reflects the intent?
I agree with 99% of this, and you've described the problems well. But your case against eliminating student debt seems to be 1) it just makes the banks whole and doesn't address the underlying problems, and 2) here are all of the things we should do instead.
Given the actions pondered by the administration right now, perhaps you are right.
But to really fix things, what needs to happen is that all student loan debts be forgiven, and the creditors (banks and government) be forced to write them off.
This would require legislation, but it could be a very simple law.
All of the myriad changes you suggest would then follow, but rather than requiring numerous legislative actions, they would be worked out in the markets and politically over time as the system adjusted to what is essentially a decoupling of debt and education.
Your citation to Deuteronomy hints at one of the fundamental problems we have, namely our whole system's reliance on debt with compound interest. There is wisdom in the ancient prohibitions against usury, and we probably should count amongst our original sins the construction of a world heedless of that.
Specifically here the problem is debt with no underlying collateral. (The case for commercial debt and for purchases like housing are much stronger.)
The proposal by the Biden administration would help a few on the margins (low income people for whom 10K would have a material benefit), and for that reason alone, I'd take it as something better than nothing. Politically it will undoubtedly backfire as people perceive it as taking from the poor to help the rich (although it does neither), but at this point I have no concern for the political prospects of the Democratic Party.
I'm sure my suggestion will never happen, but I'm just as sure that your proposals will also never happen (or to the extent they do, they won't play out as intended). So if we are going to discuss hypotheticals we should talk about the real problem which is simply a political struggle between banks and the people at large.
One the issues right now is that we're in an inflationary period. A lot of people have their brains stuck in the Great Recession, where we needed to put any spending out there we could to put the economy back on track. I would have supported more forgiveness then, since it would have been something. But, right now, the economy is at its a capacity. Any additional spending will increase prices without increasing output. So forgiving loans to help people a buy, for instance, would just increase the price of homes, which doesn't seem very progressive.
As for the credential inflation, it seems like the best solution is to stop printing the credential. I would love a German-style system where a much smaller proportion of the population can attend college.
Lots of interesting stuff here.
I agree that a lot of people feel compelled to get a degree because so many jobs that never used to require one …often now require one, such as administrative assistant. I like your idea of incentives for employers who don’t play that silly game.
On the other hand, it’s become something of a requirement for office work, such that everyone who applies has a bachelor’s degree at minimum and often a master’s of some kind. The people who don’t have anything are often not the “go-getters”— and therefore, while there’s nothing in the nature of the work that requires higher education, the person who pursued a degree or two is viewed as a “typical worker” and the person who “only” completed high school is viewed with suspicion. Why didn’t they continue in school?
And to be fair, most people who choose not to pursue an education are _not_ like the young man you mentioned who took his college fund and did something else with it. (Very cool by the way.)
Add this wrinkle: the online diploma mills. At my workplace, among the administrative staff, there are a _lot_ of people pursuing master’s degrees or even PhDs from online schools and one can’t help but wonder how those expensive degrees are helping anyone do their jobs, except to make them look better educated when they want to move up. But indeed, it seems to work that way. Don’t you want to hire a PhD, even a diploma mill one, as opposed to a high school graduate? It seems a lot of people do.
I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m hiring, if a candidate has a diploma mill degree, that’s a ding against them.
But…all that being said, I still think everyone, whether they want to pursue a trade or get a traditional college education, should be prepared by society to enter the world of work without debt.
You know infinitely more than I do about universities in Europe. But I do know that what provides value in the college experience isn’t the pretty campus and the gym and the increasingly nice dorm rooms. What provides value is the education. So, if it’s fair to say that European universities are more spartan/utilitarian, then so be it. That’s a trade I’d gladly take for our American kids.
On the other hand, I’m not a fan of “knowing what you want to study” ahead of time. A lot of kids do know, but a lot don’t. Then again, the huge UC system in California requires that kids apply and be admitted to a specific major, after which it’s very hard to switch.
I don’t like it, but again, it’s a trade-off I would accept (spartan universities, applying to a particular major) in exchange for a debt-free education for every American who wants it.
Very thoughtful and challenging article. I think a great place to begin is honoring our commitment to the kids who signed up for public service. It's a disgrace so few have received the forgiveness they deserve. Why oh why is it so hard to implement the laws we pass in a manner that reflects the intent?