P.S. Matthew just seems so damn tortured. And what's with his hair? I'm sure that someone with a bazillion lbs a year owns an ivory comb? I'm Team Colin, but it's just because I think he's cuter.
Totally with you here on the point that the teaching/learning model in American high schools is not the way to learn. I teach at a university (in design, not languages), and students who had even years of Spanish or French in HS can't converse in their language of study.
For me personally, however, I am so grateful that I learned other languages: Latin in HS (Catholic), German in college (Georgia State University required a year of foreign language), and then self-taught Italian (because I teach in Rome sometimes). I am a huge logophile, so maybe this explains why this matters so much to me. I am fascinated by words and their etymologies to the point that sometimes I can be annoying, or at least people look at me funny.
There is another aspect of foreign languages that brings me great joy: out-loud pronunciation of words or names. One of my favorite things about learning German was speaking the language, with all those weird sounds that English doesn't have. Same with Italian. And I even get a kick out of learning proper pronunciation for words in languages that I don't speak, such as Mandarin Chinese. I am a name-reader at my university's commencements every semester, and one of my greatest joys is reading the student names into a microphone that makes my voice reverberate to the rafters of a coliseum filled with 20,000 happy people—knowing that I "nailed" it.
It's a great role for me, because I have both a voice and a face that is perfect for radio :·)
The problem with your take on Pride and Prejudice is not that it’s wrong, exactly. It’s that Colin Firth is in the one with Jennifer Ehle, which means that all other adaptations are as nothing—dust floating away on the wind. So the Matthew Macfadyen performance effectively doesn’t exist. (Bad luck for him!)
Mar 22·edited Mar 22Liked by Mari, the Happy Wanderer
I was sort of grumping at this take at first, but then you convinced me at least that the reason(s) for teaching foreign languages needs to be re-thought. I wonder what language instruction would be like if it were all more like Latin and Greek, where you're focused on reading and translation (and almost no speaking)?
I thought over this essay for quite a while, and bounced the ideas off of some close friends. Granted, my data set consists almost entirely of people who would choose to study subjects outside of their own expertise solely for the new experiences and broadening of their own horizons. We feel like your practical approach to let children choose their own electives turns into the racism of low expectations.
Children are not good at choosing what's best for them, that comes with maturity and experience. Any child worth her salt would choose ice cream over broccoli. Do we just feed every child ice cream, let them take art and gym classes because they are the most fun, and reserve any real education to the little Sheldon Cooper nerdlings who actually have some affinity for foreign languages, writing classes, and math? I think it's our duty as adults to push our children to challenges, make them have some uncomfortable experience with topics they may not turn out to be naturally good at. So long as we don't keep pressing the issues into early adulthood (forced college to get jobs that have no real need for higher education) we could still end up with a population of citizens that might have the possibilty of knowing a little more than their own chosen little world.
I completely agree with you on the language question. Mostly for the hopeless-without-constant-practice reason. All anyone needs to do to understand why the US, UK & Australia are mostly monolingual is look at a map. Unless you have some practical cause, unusual drive, or a magic shamelessness mixed with a good ear, it's extremely difficult to maintain the constant practice you need for decent fluency in a new language. The worst grade I received in college was a C in Italian. I was utterly terrible. When I moved to Italy a decade later, it was a completely different experience (not easy, just... necessary). Which turned a light on over my head and made improving my miserable Spanish and French much easier (not nearly at the friend-conversing level, but I might be able to crudely make fun of produce after 2-3 days in a native environment). I may still have immediately given up if confronted with Czech -- that table is terrifying! I'm impressed!
Sadly I can't speak to you rationally in any language with regard to your deranged Pride & Prejudice opinion. Particularly after hearing Colin Firth gamely trying to chat up reporters at some awards ceremony in his extremely rudimentary Italian -- I'm far too besotted to have ever given muddy Matthew Whatsis a second glance. But I am intrigued to hear more of your (undoubtedly scandalous) ideas about other movie versions of beloved literature characters. Sounds like there are enough passionate readers in here that we could have some lively, possibly apéro-fueled arguments in the comments.
(I'm all over the place in my thoughts...pardon that). For the most part I agree. Looking at the big-picture issue, I would argue that school time would be better spent teaching "life skill" subjects that would be much more valuable to the vast majority of students. On that front my list would include basic home/apt and car maintenance, basic finance/accounting, human growth and development, nutrition/fitness/wellness, et al. Given what I do for a living, I am also a big proponent of adding creative problem solving and leadership development/facilitation into the curriculum. That said, there are certainly many professions in the US where speaking Spanish (or another second language) is vital...healthcare, social services, almost any service job in a mid to major metro area or on the phone. As you suggest, those kids could opt in. Finally --- as an aside --- your "magic wand" approach is what Tina experienced at private Montessori school. They start them at age 2 and in the beginning it's just play...singing songs, learning the names of countries on the map, et al. Flash forward, the vast majority of kids in her class will leave 8th grade having completed Spanish 2. Because XT showed strong aptitude and interest in Spanish, she moved ahead and will leave 8th grade having completed Spanish 3 and start high school with the Srs. But the challenge with the Montessori approach is that is isn't scalable and requires added, qualified (and ideally native-speaking) staff.
I agree with what you said, and especially reasons you used to argue for it.
My own most controversial opinion - and I say this as a math teacher, although not in the US - is that algebra and (pre)calculus should not be mandatory either; there are many rewarding paths through life - some of which involve foreign languages - where you never need to solve anything for the square of the cosine.
As to language education in the US, I've listened to all of APM reports' "sold a story" and I'd much rather effort and money went into making sure children can read English by the time they move to high school (or college). That means that at least some of them will need phonics instruction.
I have been an international tour organizer and leader for decades, every continent except Antartica. Once upon a time just out of university where two languages were necessary for my Ph.D. I could speak (but not necessarily understand spoken) French and awkwardly read German. But I never once in these decades traveling internationally actually needed to speak or read a foreign language. Of course, my groups are always in the "tourist bubble," but you are right, second languages are just not necessary to function in the world and there are lots of things more necessary or just enjoyable.
As a practical matter, I suspect you're right about second language education. But studying a second language, even casually, opens doors of understanding on the nature of language itself -- its beauties and its limitations -- that a single-language speaker will never know about. Once you step outside your native tongue for even a bit, you gain insights into how your own language works that can't be had any other way. (A fish who's experienced air for a moment knows something more about water than a fish who's never left its normal habitat.)
I loved your article. Your are so good at supporting all your theses. Perhaps more time spent on learning “correct” English would be more helpful than learning a foreign language. I am forever mentally correcting tv hosts and commentators and advertisers misusing objective and subjective pronouns and “accompanying”verbs! They are not always the best models for our children.
PS I am not sure I would have gotten my high diploma in Minnesota!
P.S. Matthew just seems so damn tortured. And what's with his hair? I'm sure that someone with a bazillion lbs a year owns an ivory comb? I'm Team Colin, but it's just because I think he's cuter.
Totally with you here on the point that the teaching/learning model in American high schools is not the way to learn. I teach at a university (in design, not languages), and students who had even years of Spanish or French in HS can't converse in their language of study.
For me personally, however, I am so grateful that I learned other languages: Latin in HS (Catholic), German in college (Georgia State University required a year of foreign language), and then self-taught Italian (because I teach in Rome sometimes). I am a huge logophile, so maybe this explains why this matters so much to me. I am fascinated by words and their etymologies to the point that sometimes I can be annoying, or at least people look at me funny.
There is another aspect of foreign languages that brings me great joy: out-loud pronunciation of words or names. One of my favorite things about learning German was speaking the language, with all those weird sounds that English doesn't have. Same with Italian. And I even get a kick out of learning proper pronunciation for words in languages that I don't speak, such as Mandarin Chinese. I am a name-reader at my university's commencements every semester, and one of my greatest joys is reading the student names into a microphone that makes my voice reverberate to the rafters of a coliseum filled with 20,000 happy people—knowing that I "nailed" it.
It's a great role for me, because I have both a voice and a face that is perfect for radio :·)
The problem with your take on Pride and Prejudice is not that it’s wrong, exactly. It’s that Colin Firth is in the one with Jennifer Ehle, which means that all other adaptations are as nothing—dust floating away on the wind. So the Matthew Macfadyen performance effectively doesn’t exist. (Bad luck for him!)
I was sort of grumping at this take at first, but then you convinced me at least that the reason(s) for teaching foreign languages needs to be re-thought. I wonder what language instruction would be like if it were all more like Latin and Greek, where you're focused on reading and translation (and almost no speaking)?
Also your discussion of the best way to learn a language made me think of Xiao Ma -- do you know this guy? He's fun -- he makes viral videos on youtube speaking different languages in public and surprising people, and has "street smart" language classes -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njn6krU3tQ8&ab_channel=Xiaomanyc%E5%B0%8F%E9%A9%AC%E5%9C%A8%E7%BA%BD%E7%BA%A6
I thought over this essay for quite a while, and bounced the ideas off of some close friends. Granted, my data set consists almost entirely of people who would choose to study subjects outside of their own expertise solely for the new experiences and broadening of their own horizons. We feel like your practical approach to let children choose their own electives turns into the racism of low expectations.
Children are not good at choosing what's best for them, that comes with maturity and experience. Any child worth her salt would choose ice cream over broccoli. Do we just feed every child ice cream, let them take art and gym classes because they are the most fun, and reserve any real education to the little Sheldon Cooper nerdlings who actually have some affinity for foreign languages, writing classes, and math? I think it's our duty as adults to push our children to challenges, make them have some uncomfortable experience with topics they may not turn out to be naturally good at. So long as we don't keep pressing the issues into early adulthood (forced college to get jobs that have no real need for higher education) we could still end up with a population of citizens that might have the possibilty of knowing a little more than their own chosen little world.
I completely agree with you on the language question. Mostly for the hopeless-without-constant-practice reason. All anyone needs to do to understand why the US, UK & Australia are mostly monolingual is look at a map. Unless you have some practical cause, unusual drive, or a magic shamelessness mixed with a good ear, it's extremely difficult to maintain the constant practice you need for decent fluency in a new language. The worst grade I received in college was a C in Italian. I was utterly terrible. When I moved to Italy a decade later, it was a completely different experience (not easy, just... necessary). Which turned a light on over my head and made improving my miserable Spanish and French much easier (not nearly at the friend-conversing level, but I might be able to crudely make fun of produce after 2-3 days in a native environment). I may still have immediately given up if confronted with Czech -- that table is terrifying! I'm impressed!
Sadly I can't speak to you rationally in any language with regard to your deranged Pride & Prejudice opinion. Particularly after hearing Colin Firth gamely trying to chat up reporters at some awards ceremony in his extremely rudimentary Italian -- I'm far too besotted to have ever given muddy Matthew Whatsis a second glance. But I am intrigued to hear more of your (undoubtedly scandalous) ideas about other movie versions of beloved literature characters. Sounds like there are enough passionate readers in here that we could have some lively, possibly apéro-fueled arguments in the comments.
(I'm all over the place in my thoughts...pardon that). For the most part I agree. Looking at the big-picture issue, I would argue that school time would be better spent teaching "life skill" subjects that would be much more valuable to the vast majority of students. On that front my list would include basic home/apt and car maintenance, basic finance/accounting, human growth and development, nutrition/fitness/wellness, et al. Given what I do for a living, I am also a big proponent of adding creative problem solving and leadership development/facilitation into the curriculum. That said, there are certainly many professions in the US where speaking Spanish (or another second language) is vital...healthcare, social services, almost any service job in a mid to major metro area or on the phone. As you suggest, those kids could opt in. Finally --- as an aside --- your "magic wand" approach is what Tina experienced at private Montessori school. They start them at age 2 and in the beginning it's just play...singing songs, learning the names of countries on the map, et al. Flash forward, the vast majority of kids in her class will leave 8th grade having completed Spanish 2. Because XT showed strong aptitude and interest in Spanish, she moved ahead and will leave 8th grade having completed Spanish 3 and start high school with the Srs. But the challenge with the Montessori approach is that is isn't scalable and requires added, qualified (and ideally native-speaking) staff.
I agree with what you said, and especially reasons you used to argue for it.
My own most controversial opinion - and I say this as a math teacher, although not in the US - is that algebra and (pre)calculus should not be mandatory either; there are many rewarding paths through life - some of which involve foreign languages - where you never need to solve anything for the square of the cosine.
As to language education in the US, I've listened to all of APM reports' "sold a story" and I'd much rather effort and money went into making sure children can read English by the time they move to high school (or college). That means that at least some of them will need phonics instruction.
I have been an international tour organizer and leader for decades, every continent except Antartica. Once upon a time just out of university where two languages were necessary for my Ph.D. I could speak (but not necessarily understand spoken) French and awkwardly read German. But I never once in these decades traveling internationally actually needed to speak or read a foreign language. Of course, my groups are always in the "tourist bubble," but you are right, second languages are just not necessary to function in the world and there are lots of things more necessary or just enjoyable.
As a practical matter, I suspect you're right about second language education. But studying a second language, even casually, opens doors of understanding on the nature of language itself -- its beauties and its limitations -- that a single-language speaker will never know about. Once you step outside your native tongue for even a bit, you gain insights into how your own language works that can't be had any other way. (A fish who's experienced air for a moment knows something more about water than a fish who's never left its normal habitat.)
I loved your article. Your are so good at supporting all your theses. Perhaps more time spent on learning “correct” English would be more helpful than learning a foreign language. I am forever mentally correcting tv hosts and commentators and advertisers misusing objective and subjective pronouns and “accompanying”verbs! They are not always the best models for our children.
PS I am not sure I would have gotten my high diploma in Minnesota!
I enjoyed reading this educational article. I too prefer Matthew over Colin 😘