I think that what teacher or admins were doing at Noah's school was exactly opposite of what they should have been doing. Here at my university, I'm starting to see in some students a sort of weaponized vulnerability: a student can get another student in trouble for some verbal "microagression" (whether or not it was intended to be provocative).
I understand the underlying good intentions to protect the vulnerable, but this is coddling and infantilizing. We are making students even more vulnerable, and inhibiting their development of an adult level of resilience. Not to mention the "language police" vibe.
Yes exactly. This plays right into the hands of a lot of the cancel culture warriors who want to shut down controversial speakers because their words are “literal violence” against some allegedly disadvantaged group.
I agree. You are right to note that the intentions are good, but this kind of thing is so misguided. We all have the power to shrug things off—or to laugh, as Noah did. I really think most of us will be better off with that approach.
Yeah Noah's comeback was perfect. But I'm going to remember that insult about Hitler and Osama, so I can deploy it in the right circumstance. I think my brother would appreciate it :·)
I think its possible that the point of making fun of someone is often less to bring them down and more to create comradery among the people making fun. For better or worse (generally worse), making fun of people is fun. It's why people so often do it.
In the context of politics, I'm not sure the point of couch jokes about Vance are to lower people's opinion of him, so much as sort of creating a rallying cry for Democrats. There's a peice of conventional wisdom that the party having fun is winning, and this is causal, with the "having fun," helping with the winning.
Obviously this isn't justified when you are talking about school yard bullies. I do think there is some reason not to support it in politics, not because I'm concerned about Trump or Vance's feelings, but because it coarsens the culture which isn't great. However I'd probably take a somewhat coarser culture over 4 more years of Trump (who has proven adept at coarsening the culture).
It's also worth keeping in mind that this is hardly a new thing. It's the same as the British calling Napoleon short or Shakespeare (and I'm sure others) calling Richard II hunchbacked and ugly. I'm sure that it isn't just the British and it goes back much further than the 15th Century.
Even if you can justify it in the context of politics, there is probably something to be said for avoiding certain insults. Again, I'm not super concerned about hurting Christie's feelings, but if you call him fat, that does propagate the idea that being fat is bad (in a social moral sense, not just a health sense), and so other fat people are collateral damage.
You are right to point out that there is a long tradition of name-calling in politics. In addition to Shakespeare there are Dryden and Pope’s political poems, and I’m currently participating in a long read of War and Peace, and let me tell you, Tolstoy does not pass up an opportunity to make fun of Napoleon!
That being said, I really dislike the couch jokes about Vance. It isn’t even true, and even if it were, who cares?
Growing up in a blue collar part of town, I was bullied every day from 7th and 8th grades because I was Jewish. One boy called me "Jew Bagel" and beat me up every day after school. I eventually went to his house to ask his parents to have their son leave me alone. I found his father and aunt drunk as can be applauding their son and nephew for going after me. By 8th grade, he added the word "Fuckin" and still continued to beat me up. Years later when he was 19, he killed his 16 year old girlfriend and escaped from jail. I thought he would come after me and I couldn't sleep for days until he was captured. The moral of this story is kids who bully are sad, vicious, unloved and mostly jealous of what others have that they don't! My kids were both bullied and my son was threatened with his life if he didn't let this kid in class cheat off of his tests.
Noah was lucky to be able to leave the country and be treated with respect from other students! My heart breaks for all kids who are bullied. Don't let this be where kids are killing themselves because they can't take the abuse!
I am so sorry those terrible things happened to you and to Craig, Amy. It is evil that those parents did nothing to stop the abuse. Of course I don’t mean we should teach our kids to ignore real bullying, and I am glad that schools, if not all parents, are taking the problem more seriously.
Timely subject, Mari! Have been a bit concerned that the Democratic contender for the next president of the United States (and I adore her!) has referred to her opposition as “weird”.
A little part of me reacted negatively to the name calling, being reminded of Michelle Obama’s
insistence that “ when they go lower, we go higher!” A case can be made either way. I am simply commenting on my first reaction to the name branding.
I really like Michelle Obama’s principles here. As for “weird,” I do think that that one can be understood as a criticism over something substantive. For example, it’s weird for men in power to want the government to keep data on women’s menstrual cycles.
I think that what teacher or admins were doing at Noah's school was exactly opposite of what they should have been doing. Here at my university, I'm starting to see in some students a sort of weaponized vulnerability: a student can get another student in trouble for some verbal "microagression" (whether or not it was intended to be provocative).
I understand the underlying good intentions to protect the vulnerable, but this is coddling and infantilizing. We are making students even more vulnerable, and inhibiting their development of an adult level of resilience. Not to mention the "language police" vibe.
Yes exactly. This plays right into the hands of a lot of the cancel culture warriors who want to shut down controversial speakers because their words are “literal violence” against some allegedly disadvantaged group.
I agree. You are right to note that the intentions are good, but this kind of thing is so misguided. We all have the power to shrug things off—or to laugh, as Noah did. I really think most of us will be better off with that approach.
Yeah Noah's comeback was perfect. But I'm going to remember that insult about Hitler and Osama, so I can deploy it in the right circumstance. I think my brother would appreciate it :·)
Ha! I was really proud of Noah for his quick thinking!
I think its possible that the point of making fun of someone is often less to bring them down and more to create comradery among the people making fun. For better or worse (generally worse), making fun of people is fun. It's why people so often do it.
In the context of politics, I'm not sure the point of couch jokes about Vance are to lower people's opinion of him, so much as sort of creating a rallying cry for Democrats. There's a peice of conventional wisdom that the party having fun is winning, and this is causal, with the "having fun," helping with the winning.
Obviously this isn't justified when you are talking about school yard bullies. I do think there is some reason not to support it in politics, not because I'm concerned about Trump or Vance's feelings, but because it coarsens the culture which isn't great. However I'd probably take a somewhat coarser culture over 4 more years of Trump (who has proven adept at coarsening the culture).
It's also worth keeping in mind that this is hardly a new thing. It's the same as the British calling Napoleon short or Shakespeare (and I'm sure others) calling Richard II hunchbacked and ugly. I'm sure that it isn't just the British and it goes back much further than the 15th Century.
Even if you can justify it in the context of politics, there is probably something to be said for avoiding certain insults. Again, I'm not super concerned about hurting Christie's feelings, but if you call him fat, that does propagate the idea that being fat is bad (in a social moral sense, not just a health sense), and so other fat people are collateral damage.
You are right to point out that there is a long tradition of name-calling in politics. In addition to Shakespeare there are Dryden and Pope’s political poems, and I’m currently participating in a long read of War and Peace, and let me tell you, Tolstoy does not pass up an opportunity to make fun of Napoleon!
That being said, I really dislike the couch jokes about Vance. It isn’t even true, and even if it were, who cares?
Growing up in a blue collar part of town, I was bullied every day from 7th and 8th grades because I was Jewish. One boy called me "Jew Bagel" and beat me up every day after school. I eventually went to his house to ask his parents to have their son leave me alone. I found his father and aunt drunk as can be applauding their son and nephew for going after me. By 8th grade, he added the word "Fuckin" and still continued to beat me up. Years later when he was 19, he killed his 16 year old girlfriend and escaped from jail. I thought he would come after me and I couldn't sleep for days until he was captured. The moral of this story is kids who bully are sad, vicious, unloved and mostly jealous of what others have that they don't! My kids were both bullied and my son was threatened with his life if he didn't let this kid in class cheat off of his tests.
Noah was lucky to be able to leave the country and be treated with respect from other students! My heart breaks for all kids who are bullied. Don't let this be where kids are killing themselves because they can't take the abuse!
I am so sorry those terrible things happened to you and to Craig, Amy. It is evil that those parents did nothing to stop the abuse. Of course I don’t mean we should teach our kids to ignore real bullying, and I am glad that schools, if not all parents, are taking the problem more seriously.
Timely subject, Mari! Have been a bit concerned that the Democratic contender for the next president of the United States (and I adore her!) has referred to her opposition as “weird”.
A little part of me reacted negatively to the name calling, being reminded of Michelle Obama’s
insistence that “ when they go lower, we go higher!” A case can be made either way. I am simply commenting on my first reaction to the name branding.
I really like Michelle Obama’s principles here. As for “weird,” I do think that that one can be understood as a criticism over something substantive. For example, it’s weird for men in power to want the government to keep data on women’s menstrual cycles.