1. I’m pleased to have been pronouncing your name correctly in my mind!
2. Interesting post! Yes there’s always context. Even some of the Criminal Karens’ story is more complex, such as the story of Amy Cooper, the Central Park dog walker. She lost her job, her dog, was publicly made out to be a horrible person, was doxxed and had to go into hiding (from which she has not yet emerged I think). Turns out the “innocent black guy” she called 911 on is a guy who’s been in altercations with other dog-walkers, including other men, and the dog-walkers say he is menacing and threatening to people and their dogs. He got into a physical fight with at least one guy. He approached this woman in a deserted part of the park, was aggressive with her, and she perceived him as threatening her dog and she got scared. I’d be scared of any guy who’d done that set of behaviors, and it doesn’t matter if he was black or white. Then he turned on his phone, started recording, acted all meek (instead of just leaving the area) and the rest is history. It would have sounded like a made-up story, this weird Jekyll-Hyde guy threatening people’s dogs, except that he’s done it to a bunch of people and is locally famous for it.
So… sometimes even Criminal Karen has a context. I doubt if there are roving bands of middle-aged racist white women just trying to ruin someone’s day. There is no doubt a Truly Bad psychopathic joy-killing “Karen” somewhere, but her existence hardly deserves smearing a category of women.
I have some Grouchy Internet Feminist feelings about the Karen phenomenon - as you say, we don't have an equivalent term for a snippy, entitled man in a customer service interaction, but those certainly exist. My wife works a customer service job, and it turns out demanding to speak to the manager is gender-neutral.
I appreciate your point about contextualizing the Karen, and looking at what else is going on in her day and her life before judging her. The moment a woman does something we don't like, she somehow ceases to be herself and immediately becomes a meme-ified version of *every* woman who does something we don't like. There's something a bit dehumanizing about it, if that isn't too dramatic a term-- the immediate cultural punishment for a woman who makes a fuss is to be turned into a kind of platonic ideal of petty bitchiness.
I really liked this post. We do not have a name for white men who complain or are abusive or overly aggressive and yet it happens all the time. When the term first became popularized I complained about something to a friend and then said, half-joking, that I didn't want to be a Karen. Without missing a beat, my friend said, "Well the label 'Karen,' is just misogyny." This friend is not usually so forthright and categorical in her language, so her use of the word misogyny in this context impressed me. After that I was done with the label. My summary comment on your post would be--let's fix problems rather than negatively label the people who act them out (Karens, "lazy" service workers). America is becoming more and more of a dog eat dog world due to excessive capitalism (as you point out) benefiting the wealthy few and more and more working against the interests of most of the rest of us.
I never sent food back in a restaurant, but after several years of eating out with a particular friend who would send French fries back for not being hot enough, I was served way over done lamb chops, so I asked for them to be re done, my dinner companions ate their entire plates and I was still waiting for my replacement lamb. I complained again and this time only a few minutes later I was brought almost raw lamb chops! I like medium rare. When I posted a review on yelp the owner chastised me for not understanding the “meaning” of medium rare, neither version of my dinner would ever be considered mid rare!.needless to say we have never eaten there again. On a different point, where not only a Karen moment but where privilege really played a part. I can only post this here because no one I work with is on your reader list…. Recently a group of young black men got permission from Student life to do a dance/rap number in our college cafeteria, I saw our security officer running at full speed towards the area but had no idea what was happening, a colleague witnessed a young black man running out of the building at full speed. It wasn’t until the next day we started to hear the whole tale. The group were doing their thing when a senior member of the college, a white woman in her 60’s, apparently felt threatened and called security ( I guess we can be thankful she did not call 911!). A day or so later the Student Life staff member who had given permission to the students, was called to the Presidents office and hauled over the coals for not informing the entire cabinet of this event. REALLY??? At no time, when organizing events on campus, have I, or any other office, informed the cabinet prior to an event! Needless to say the only person chastised was the student life staff member, not the white woman for over reacting! The optics are so bad here! I recall the news story of a black student hanging out in a common area and someone calling the cops….this felt just as bad! Thank you Mari ( I know how to pronounce your name!) for this topic!
I really dislike the term "Karens" - hadn't even heard of it until recently. I giggled at being part of the more "aggressive Northeastern family" (Is that how you termed it). For the record, the influence of you and your family, on at least one member of that family, has been to recognize and try to curb some of the spontaneous responses a bit in honor of Minnesota courtesy! We all can use some modulation....But the best thing to do with the term "Karens" in my opinion - is throw it out!!!
I am also late to this conversation. As a middle aged, Midwestern American white woman who was raised similarly to Mari, and as a human being, I too have felt aggrieved by this relatively new slur against my demographic group.
I have taken the opportunity to prevent the criminal behaviors Mari described some white people engage in against people of color. But of course this does not protect me in the current American political climate from being seen as a form of either of the two Karens Mari described. From this viewpoint, I agree with several of the points made in this comment section.
What new point do I want to make?
Many of us who are conscientious, from all demographic groups, have come to understand that our historically privileged statuses can make us blind to the experiences of those whom our own demographic groups have historically oppressed. We know, too often, these oppressive systems live on today... sometimes because we personally add to these problems, however unintentionally.
Many of us care deeply about unintentional oppression and don't know what to do about it in every day life, especially in an increasingly contentious social environment. Because I'm human, it's not always easy for me to practice either part of what I'm about to preach... but I suggest these for middle-aged white women who want to strike some sort of balance between personal growth and social growth.
[A] Yes, if the situation calls for it, we can opt to speak assertively in real and virtual spaces, and...
[B] If we should find we're labeled as a Karen, we can also opt to sit with that pain, and process it as a portal for compassion. For example, we might consider what it might feel like if everyone we descended from, for decades or centuries, were unlikely to be able to safely voice complaints to a manager, leader, or government official, who was of our own racial group. What might it feel like to be brown person with that intergenerational heritage, when a white person asks to speak to their (potentially white) boss, possibly endangering their livelihood, or at least reminding them of the possibility? How might our complaining about a customer service problem to their boss feel like it's on the same frightening spectrum as wrongfully reporting to the police? Of course we might also be willing to release our own pain from being called a relatively new slur, such as Karen, when we consider the historic pain of decades and centuries of racial slurs against BIPOC people that continue to this day.
Thanks again for a thought provoking article, Mari. (Love the Ting Tings reference!) 🦋🧡🦋
My wife's name is Karen. When the whole Karen thing started up, she initially brushed it off, or pointed out that she did not have the Karen haircut (exemplified by the "Kate" woman with 8 kids), nor did she ever ask to speak with the manager. "Why can't they use Lisa" (we have a neighbor named Lisa, who is a trust fund variety Karen). Then, that super bowl ad where woman 1 tells woman 2: "I'm sorry I called you Karen." Woman 2 replies: "But, my name is Karen." Woman 1: "I'm sorry you're name is Karen."
For many months thereafter, whenever we'd run into another women named Karen, my wife and her would swap Karen stories. I think it's a club now.
Yes but... goats milk is one of the most vile substances on this planet and sheeps milk and all of its associated products are simply divine. So in spite of my lack of a consistent belief system, chock one up for the New Testament and it’s recommendation to keep our square eyed friends separate!
More related to the essay topic: sticking up for yourself is never a bad idea! Do the right thing and stop worrying about what strangers think, because 99% of the time you are probably doing the right thing anyway.
The Karen thing is definitely misogynist.. it's weird that feminism used to hold a central place in the culture wars, but it's been entirely displaced by race
I enjoyed reading your piece. What I object to more than anything else is assigning a beautiful female name to behaviors that some, many, or most people object to. I have friends named Karen, and I feel sorry for them and all the real life Karens out there who are good people. I would feel very badly if my first name were used as a blanket derogatory term, and I wish we could find a better moniker.
1. I’m pleased to have been pronouncing your name correctly in my mind!
2. Interesting post! Yes there’s always context. Even some of the Criminal Karens’ story is more complex, such as the story of Amy Cooper, the Central Park dog walker. She lost her job, her dog, was publicly made out to be a horrible person, was doxxed and had to go into hiding (from which she has not yet emerged I think). Turns out the “innocent black guy” she called 911 on is a guy who’s been in altercations with other dog-walkers, including other men, and the dog-walkers say he is menacing and threatening to people and their dogs. He got into a physical fight with at least one guy. He approached this woman in a deserted part of the park, was aggressive with her, and she perceived him as threatening her dog and she got scared. I’d be scared of any guy who’d done that set of behaviors, and it doesn’t matter if he was black or white. Then he turned on his phone, started recording, acted all meek (instead of just leaving the area) and the rest is history. It would have sounded like a made-up story, this weird Jekyll-Hyde guy threatening people’s dogs, except that he’s done it to a bunch of people and is locally famous for it.
So… sometimes even Criminal Karen has a context. I doubt if there are roving bands of middle-aged racist white women just trying to ruin someone’s day. There is no doubt a Truly Bad psychopathic joy-killing “Karen” somewhere, but her existence hardly deserves smearing a category of women.
I have some Grouchy Internet Feminist feelings about the Karen phenomenon - as you say, we don't have an equivalent term for a snippy, entitled man in a customer service interaction, but those certainly exist. My wife works a customer service job, and it turns out demanding to speak to the manager is gender-neutral.
I appreciate your point about contextualizing the Karen, and looking at what else is going on in her day and her life before judging her. The moment a woman does something we don't like, she somehow ceases to be herself and immediately becomes a meme-ified version of *every* woman who does something we don't like. There's something a bit dehumanizing about it, if that isn't too dramatic a term-- the immediate cultural punishment for a woman who makes a fuss is to be turned into a kind of platonic ideal of petty bitchiness.
I really liked this post. We do not have a name for white men who complain or are abusive or overly aggressive and yet it happens all the time. When the term first became popularized I complained about something to a friend and then said, half-joking, that I didn't want to be a Karen. Without missing a beat, my friend said, "Well the label 'Karen,' is just misogyny." This friend is not usually so forthright and categorical in her language, so her use of the word misogyny in this context impressed me. After that I was done with the label. My summary comment on your post would be--let's fix problems rather than negatively label the people who act them out (Karens, "lazy" service workers). America is becoming more and more of a dog eat dog world due to excessive capitalism (as you point out) benefiting the wealthy few and more and more working against the interests of most of the rest of us.
I never sent food back in a restaurant, but after several years of eating out with a particular friend who would send French fries back for not being hot enough, I was served way over done lamb chops, so I asked for them to be re done, my dinner companions ate their entire plates and I was still waiting for my replacement lamb. I complained again and this time only a few minutes later I was brought almost raw lamb chops! I like medium rare. When I posted a review on yelp the owner chastised me for not understanding the “meaning” of medium rare, neither version of my dinner would ever be considered mid rare!.needless to say we have never eaten there again. On a different point, where not only a Karen moment but where privilege really played a part. I can only post this here because no one I work with is on your reader list…. Recently a group of young black men got permission from Student life to do a dance/rap number in our college cafeteria, I saw our security officer running at full speed towards the area but had no idea what was happening, a colleague witnessed a young black man running out of the building at full speed. It wasn’t until the next day we started to hear the whole tale. The group were doing their thing when a senior member of the college, a white woman in her 60’s, apparently felt threatened and called security ( I guess we can be thankful she did not call 911!). A day or so later the Student Life staff member who had given permission to the students, was called to the Presidents office and hauled over the coals for not informing the entire cabinet of this event. REALLY??? At no time, when organizing events on campus, have I, or any other office, informed the cabinet prior to an event! Needless to say the only person chastised was the student life staff member, not the white woman for over reacting! The optics are so bad here! I recall the news story of a black student hanging out in a common area and someone calling the cops….this felt just as bad! Thank you Mari ( I know how to pronounce your name!) for this topic!
I really dislike the term "Karens" - hadn't even heard of it until recently. I giggled at being part of the more "aggressive Northeastern family" (Is that how you termed it). For the record, the influence of you and your family, on at least one member of that family, has been to recognize and try to curb some of the spontaneous responses a bit in honor of Minnesota courtesy! We all can use some modulation....But the best thing to do with the term "Karens" in my opinion - is throw it out!!!
I am also late to this conversation. As a middle aged, Midwestern American white woman who was raised similarly to Mari, and as a human being, I too have felt aggrieved by this relatively new slur against my demographic group.
I have taken the opportunity to prevent the criminal behaviors Mari described some white people engage in against people of color. But of course this does not protect me in the current American political climate from being seen as a form of either of the two Karens Mari described. From this viewpoint, I agree with several of the points made in this comment section.
What new point do I want to make?
Many of us who are conscientious, from all demographic groups, have come to understand that our historically privileged statuses can make us blind to the experiences of those whom our own demographic groups have historically oppressed. We know, too often, these oppressive systems live on today... sometimes because we personally add to these problems, however unintentionally.
Many of us care deeply about unintentional oppression and don't know what to do about it in every day life, especially in an increasingly contentious social environment. Because I'm human, it's not always easy for me to practice either part of what I'm about to preach... but I suggest these for middle-aged white women who want to strike some sort of balance between personal growth and social growth.
[A] Yes, if the situation calls for it, we can opt to speak assertively in real and virtual spaces, and...
[B] If we should find we're labeled as a Karen, we can also opt to sit with that pain, and process it as a portal for compassion. For example, we might consider what it might feel like if everyone we descended from, for decades or centuries, were unlikely to be able to safely voice complaints to a manager, leader, or government official, who was of our own racial group. What might it feel like to be brown person with that intergenerational heritage, when a white person asks to speak to their (potentially white) boss, possibly endangering their livelihood, or at least reminding them of the possibility? How might our complaining about a customer service problem to their boss feel like it's on the same frightening spectrum as wrongfully reporting to the police? Of course we might also be willing to release our own pain from being called a relatively new slur, such as Karen, when we consider the historic pain of decades and centuries of racial slurs against BIPOC people that continue to this day.
Thanks again for a thought provoking article, Mari. (Love the Ting Tings reference!) 🦋🧡🦋
My wife's name is Karen. When the whole Karen thing started up, she initially brushed it off, or pointed out that she did not have the Karen haircut (exemplified by the "Kate" woman with 8 kids), nor did she ever ask to speak with the manager. "Why can't they use Lisa" (we have a neighbor named Lisa, who is a trust fund variety Karen). Then, that super bowl ad where woman 1 tells woman 2: "I'm sorry I called you Karen." Woman 2 replies: "But, my name is Karen." Woman 1: "I'm sorry you're name is Karen."
For many months thereafter, whenever we'd run into another women named Karen, my wife and her would swap Karen stories. I think it's a club now.
Yes but... goats milk is one of the most vile substances on this planet and sheeps milk and all of its associated products are simply divine. So in spite of my lack of a consistent belief system, chock one up for the New Testament and it’s recommendation to keep our square eyed friends separate!
More related to the essay topic: sticking up for yourself is never a bad idea! Do the right thing and stop worrying about what strangers think, because 99% of the time you are probably doing the right thing anyway.
The Karen thing is definitely misogynist.. it's weird that feminism used to hold a central place in the culture wars, but it's been entirely displaced by race
I enjoyed reading your piece. What I object to more than anything else is assigning a beautiful female name to behaviors that some, many, or most people object to. I have friends named Karen, and I feel sorry for them and all the real life Karens out there who are good people. I would feel very badly if my first name were used as a blanket derogatory term, and I wish we could find a better moniker.