"our levels of growth mindset are innate and vary tremendously from person to person." One of those things that is obviously true but not allowed to be said, "genetics," you know. Bad thought. But what a wonderful world (or better anyhow) if we could value people simply as human beings doing the best they can with whatever gifts they have instead of pretending everyone with enough hard work and right mind set can be A students and in the professional class. MLK admired the street cleaner who took pride in his clean streets. Oh, that we could be like that.
I loved my Philosophy of Logic class in college! I took it as an elective and since I am an engineer, all of the math proofs and truth trees were basically easy street. Of course it was a prerequisite class for all the Pre Law students and literally EVERY SINGLE ONE of them were absolutely baffled and hated it. The teacher also had an Einstein haircut, so maybe that didn’t help them either, but I thought it was cool...
Regarding the growth mindset stuff, I just think you can’t teach someone to be interested in something. Nobody had to tell me to be interested in chemistry- it just happened naturally and I had a growth mindset automatically because it was cool to see each new challenge. Of course in my English class, I had no interest whatsoever and I just did the minimum to get the A- while basically learning nothing about my native language.
I guess the moral is, that you can’t stop people from looking for dumb silver bullets (true of almost every area of study). This is just one example of a gigantic exercise in wasted grant money to show that the original result was bunk. I’m sure the original TED talk was great though...
Frankly I think this is a great example of how a social scientist can impose their own interpretation on neutral studies and events. The kids who walked to the center of the hula hoop were "giving up"? No, they were being smart and taking a free win. The kids who went farther out likely weren't just more confident but more interested in challenging themselves, which could be the real "growth mindset" to inculcate. But as you point out, it's not clear that mindsets can be inculcated to begin with.
It's interesting that the beanbag study didn't include gender as a variable. We hear about, and see, white men failing up. Could it be boys who liked the challenge and didn't fear failure because they had all their lives the message that they would succeed no matter what. Race could have been part of it, too. And on that note, so much of the "diversity" training that has been done in the wake of George Floyd's murder has had no effect whatsoever. That's sad, but makes sense. Racism goes so deep for so many people that it's going to take more than a workshop to change attitudes. The same point applies to children. For them to have a growth mindset we have to encourage their growth and independent thinking, as you say Mari. We say that we want people who think outside the box, but pretty much all societal rewards are much more geared toward people who fit in.
Thanks for this nicely balanced article. A growth mindset can help... but the idea (as Freddie has so often written) that all children can achieve the same level of excellence (and that it is largely just conventional identity markers and socio-economic factors that holds them back from this) is patently and frustratingly ridiculous.
So, last year my Year 7s were in ability sets. Now, in Year 8, they are in mixed sets. One of my students from last year really struggled with English, was easily distracted and unambitious. Now, in a mixed set, he's really pushing him and clearly wants to be at the same level as his more high-attaining peers. This is amazing and he has come on quite a lot! However, he's a long way from the understanding and performance of the higher-ability students in the class. Unless those students are going to be prevented from accessing education (or books - since they read in their spare time notably) they are going to continue to achieve more highly than my hearteningly ambitious student. If we didn't live in a society that massively over-values certain forms of labour and achievement over others this would not be an issue (or not in the same way).
My compatibalism on this issue is evidenced by the fact that I support mixed-ability classes within mainstream education //and// special education schools!
What a great essay! It's hard to believe that you think of yourself as someone who might shy away from new challenges, or are afraid of not getting an A at anything. Maybe you're just modest, or one of the lucky few who overcame her natural instincts and turned into a Growth Mindset?
I giggled when I saw the cows come home!!!! One of your favorites I know! Your concluding
Comments about teachers and teaching - which apply to formal and informal teachers - seem to me spot on. Maybe the “growth mindset” can highlight children most likely to become entrepreneurs- or scientists - where daring coupled with perseverance - may have its biggest payoff.
"our levels of growth mindset are innate and vary tremendously from person to person." One of those things that is obviously true but not allowed to be said, "genetics," you know. Bad thought. But what a wonderful world (or better anyhow) if we could value people simply as human beings doing the best they can with whatever gifts they have instead of pretending everyone with enough hard work and right mind set can be A students and in the professional class. MLK admired the street cleaner who took pride in his clean streets. Oh, that we could be like that.
Mari, is your conclusion that the growth mindset is not correlated with success or that the growth mindset is ineffectively taught?
I loved my Philosophy of Logic class in college! I took it as an elective and since I am an engineer, all of the math proofs and truth trees were basically easy street. Of course it was a prerequisite class for all the Pre Law students and literally EVERY SINGLE ONE of them were absolutely baffled and hated it. The teacher also had an Einstein haircut, so maybe that didn’t help them either, but I thought it was cool...
Regarding the growth mindset stuff, I just think you can’t teach someone to be interested in something. Nobody had to tell me to be interested in chemistry- it just happened naturally and I had a growth mindset automatically because it was cool to see each new challenge. Of course in my English class, I had no interest whatsoever and I just did the minimum to get the A- while basically learning nothing about my native language.
I guess the moral is, that you can’t stop people from looking for dumb silver bullets (true of almost every area of study). This is just one example of a gigantic exercise in wasted grant money to show that the original result was bunk. I’m sure the original TED talk was great though...
Frankly I think this is a great example of how a social scientist can impose their own interpretation on neutral studies and events. The kids who walked to the center of the hula hoop were "giving up"? No, they were being smart and taking a free win. The kids who went farther out likely weren't just more confident but more interested in challenging themselves, which could be the real "growth mindset" to inculcate. But as you point out, it's not clear that mindsets can be inculcated to begin with.
It's interesting that the beanbag study didn't include gender as a variable. We hear about, and see, white men failing up. Could it be boys who liked the challenge and didn't fear failure because they had all their lives the message that they would succeed no matter what. Race could have been part of it, too. And on that note, so much of the "diversity" training that has been done in the wake of George Floyd's murder has had no effect whatsoever. That's sad, but makes sense. Racism goes so deep for so many people that it's going to take more than a workshop to change attitudes. The same point applies to children. For them to have a growth mindset we have to encourage their growth and independent thinking, as you say Mari. We say that we want people who think outside the box, but pretty much all societal rewards are much more geared toward people who fit in.
Thanks for this nicely balanced article. A growth mindset can help... but the idea (as Freddie has so often written) that all children can achieve the same level of excellence (and that it is largely just conventional identity markers and socio-economic factors that holds them back from this) is patently and frustratingly ridiculous.
So, last year my Year 7s were in ability sets. Now, in Year 8, they are in mixed sets. One of my students from last year really struggled with English, was easily distracted and unambitious. Now, in a mixed set, he's really pushing him and clearly wants to be at the same level as his more high-attaining peers. This is amazing and he has come on quite a lot! However, he's a long way from the understanding and performance of the higher-ability students in the class. Unless those students are going to be prevented from accessing education (or books - since they read in their spare time notably) they are going to continue to achieve more highly than my hearteningly ambitious student. If we didn't live in a society that massively over-values certain forms of labour and achievement over others this would not be an issue (or not in the same way).
My compatibalism on this issue is evidenced by the fact that I support mixed-ability classes within mainstream education //and// special education schools!
What a great essay! It's hard to believe that you think of yourself as someone who might shy away from new challenges, or are afraid of not getting an A at anything. Maybe you're just modest, or one of the lucky few who overcame her natural instincts and turned into a Growth Mindset?
I giggled when I saw the cows come home!!!! One of your favorites I know! Your concluding
Comments about teachers and teaching - which apply to formal and informal teachers - seem to me spot on. Maybe the “growth mindset” can highlight children most likely to become entrepreneurs- or scientists - where daring coupled with perseverance - may have its biggest payoff.