That girl with the fish and drunk cat is one of my all-time favorite memes!
For conversation starters I’m not too creative. At potlucks I lavishly praise the food (and it’s easy to find things to praise, because people bring their “greatest hits” to potlucks) and often get into talking recipes with the cooks.
The thing about “asking what someone does is classist” BEING classist is so true. I’m glad to hear someone say it!!!
There are few things more irksome than the snobbery of someone assuming that you’re ashamed of your job (or car or anything else) because theirs is fancier.
Just this week I was talking to a mom whose kid goes to a “fancier name” college than my kid -- and she was almost ... consoling me? Assuming my daughter had been rejected there? What I felt like saying, but didn’t, was that my kid wanted to go to one of two universities for their very specific programs, and she’s now attending one of them and couldn’t be happier. She didn’t apply or have any interest in the school this woman’s daughter attends, even if it’s a fancier name.
But... to have said that would have been to play along with the snobbery -- responding to snobbery with my own snobbish anti-snobbery -- so I kept that to myself. I just said she’s really happy at her school, which is the only thing that should matter to anyone anyway.
Your story about your daughter’s college--where she is so happy and successful!--makes me roll my eyes. So many PMC/east coast elite ways of interacting with people have that Seinfeld “not that there’s anything wrong with that” feeling, don’t they?
Also... having thought about this for a few more mins, I think part of it is I’m actually SO very proud of her, and it’s almost unimaginable to consider being ashamed of where she goes or what she’s doing. How unnatural of a feeling is that?
I love hearing about “the kids’” (mine and other people’s) successes and accomplishments and happiness. I’m proud of everyone’s kids especially my own so... that kind of talk makes me feel so icky!
I love the off-beat questions and answers. If you're brave enough to ask or answer something unexpected and a little silly, it can put the interlocutor at ease. If I'm willing to make myself a tiny bit ridiculous, they don't have to worry that they'll do or say something embarrassing.
Thank you for saying, or writing, it outloud. The idea that we're nothing but workers is ridiculous and damaging.
Your alternate conversation starters are spot on too. My husband came up with one that works really well: "What do you do for fun?" People usually enjoy talking about that and you can learn a lot about them.
Well, it really is. I add odd facts I find all the time. (with footnotes). My daughter calls me Wikimom and is glad I put it there instead of telling her everything I run across. It's 100% self-learned and Wikipedia has lots of tutorials.
It is so cool that you edit Wikipedia, and I can’t imagine hearing that and not immediately wanting to know more about it. Some people just aren’t curious, I guess.
I 100% agree with you, Mari. When people ask what I do, sometimes I answer "I'm a nurse," and sometimes I answer "I'm a writer"--usually depending on how I'm feeling or what I'm up to. The conversations that ensue from each of those responses could not be more different, which is interesting in and of itself. And as you can imagine, the few times Arthur has described himself as a "theoretical astrophysicist" the responses vary from stunned silence to awestruck amazement. Usually he says, "I'm a physicist," which is hard enough for people to respond to. Great column! Workism indeed. Let's hear it for Lifeism and Happyism.
Ooo! I love Lifeism and Happyism! And yes, because you wear two hats careerwise, you have a very interesting opportunity to see how people respond to whichever profession you offer up. We all have our stereotypes, after all.
Btw, Arthur’s experience is reminding me of a funny story about Matt. We were on a bike trip before we got married, and the other people in the group were curious about what his job was. He didn’t like his job at the time (at an environmental consulting firm), so he was evasive. The group knew that he had a PhD in math, spoke Russian, and lived in DC. They all assumed he worked for the CIA! 😂
I went to a Thanksgiving once and a man brought his elderly mother. I noticed she wasn't interacting with anyone. I sat next to her and asked her about her son and she told me she'd come from China with her husband and set up a laundry to put son through school. She talked and talked. She was wonderful. At the end of the evening the man thanked me for putting up with the old lady. I told him it was fun talking with her (it was). Everyone is interesting even if their kids don't think so.
What a lovely story! You and the mom were both the winners in this interaction, and maybe in the way home the son asked, “What were you talking about all that time?” and then his mom could share a story or two.
I'm so glad you tackled this article. Wife wonders why I subscribe to New York Magazine and when this issue arrived, I was starting to see her point. Eyes rolled to back of my head fo 43, 44 , 52. Feel like the print issue had even different ones than the online version but not worth effort to cross check.
Biggest disappointment was still no right answer to #120 "Even when a kids’ party says “no gifts,” you’re supposed to bring a gift."
Still trying to solve the puzzle of how to throw a party for my kids without being inundated with more crap.
That etiquette article was so out of touch with the lives of most of even New York Magazine readers!
As for your kids’ parties issue, I hear you. Our kids always got so much stuff they didn’t need, which we just added to the piles in the basement playroom. I used to fantasize about putting a line on the invitations to the effect of “No gifts! We mean it! If you bring a gift we are throwing it down the sewer!” Obviously I never did that, but a real way to channel guests’ gift-buying impulses might be to have your child pick a charity and say that in lieu of gifts, guests could make a donation. I never tried this, though, so I have no idea if it would work.
Love all of these suggestions, when I was asked about what my son's were doing and I explained that Matt was an actor and Ian worked at a major airport as a supervisor, the response was " I bet you are disappointed" I asked what joy they experience with their kids... Then explained that my kids happiness on their journey brings me joy. They were able to see there is nothing but joy for my boys, and we're able to express joy about their kids. I try extremely hard to not talk to much about my kids, they went on for quite some time, thinking of joy within their family, which has turned into a great friend with whom I get to share wonderful stories about our kids.
My jaw dropped at the idea that someone could say you were disappointed in your kids! But I love the way you turned it around to talk about joy, and that instead of turning on them angrily (which I definitely would have done), you gave them a chance to reflect on the joy in their own lives with their kids.
Love this! Since most people have no clue what to say when I tell them I’m a stay at home mom or say something along the lines of -- oh cool so you get to watch a lot of tv!? 🤪 Thanks for this piece!
Thank you! As usual, you’ve inspired two new things I will start doing, like asking different and fun questions at the start of my webinars vs same old, same old.
Just commenting to say how much I like your writing. It's like a "unicorn chaser" to the political and culture war stuff I normally read.
Oh wow--thank you so much! You have put a huge smile on my face!
I was going to post the same sentiment, but you've put it better.
That girl with the fish and drunk cat is one of my all-time favorite memes!
For conversation starters I’m not too creative. At potlucks I lavishly praise the food (and it’s easy to find things to praise, because people bring their “greatest hits” to potlucks) and often get into talking recipes with the cooks.
The thing about “asking what someone does is classist” BEING classist is so true. I’m glad to hear someone say it!!!
There are few things more irksome than the snobbery of someone assuming that you’re ashamed of your job (or car or anything else) because theirs is fancier.
Just this week I was talking to a mom whose kid goes to a “fancier name” college than my kid -- and she was almost ... consoling me? Assuming my daughter had been rejected there? What I felt like saying, but didn’t, was that my kid wanted to go to one of two universities for their very specific programs, and she’s now attending one of them and couldn’t be happier. She didn’t apply or have any interest in the school this woman’s daughter attends, even if it’s a fancier name.
But... to have said that would have been to play along with the snobbery -- responding to snobbery with my own snobbish anti-snobbery -- so I kept that to myself. I just said she’s really happy at her school, which is the only thing that should matter to anyone anyway.
Your story about your daughter’s college--where she is so happy and successful!--makes me roll my eyes. So many PMC/east coast elite ways of interacting with people have that Seinfeld “not that there’s anything wrong with that” feeling, don’t they?
Also... having thought about this for a few more mins, I think part of it is I’m actually SO very proud of her, and it’s almost unimaginable to consider being ashamed of where she goes or what she’s doing. How unnatural of a feeling is that?
I love hearing about “the kids’” (mine and other people’s) successes and accomplishments and happiness. I’m proud of everyone’s kids especially my own so... that kind of talk makes me feel so icky!
YES!!!!!!!
I love the off-beat questions and answers. If you're brave enough to ask or answer something unexpected and a little silly, it can put the interlocutor at ease. If I'm willing to make myself a tiny bit ridiculous, they don't have to worry that they'll do or say something embarrassing.
I love your outrageous suggestion, which is guaranteed to make the right person crack up!
Thank you for saying, or writing, it outloud. The idea that we're nothing but workers is ridiculous and damaging.
Your alternate conversation starters are spot on too. My husband came up with one that works really well: "What do you do for fun?" People usually enjoy talking about that and you can learn a lot about them.
That is a great suggestion! What we do for fun will be by definition a fun topic!
Unless you tell them you like to edit Wikipedia and then they edge away. I speak from experience.
Love it! That actually sounds fascinating to me, I'd love to know more!
Well, it really is. I add odd facts I find all the time. (with footnotes). My daughter calls me Wikimom and is glad I put it there instead of telling her everything I run across. It's 100% self-learned and Wikipedia has lots of tutorials.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_edit_a_page
Wiki mom is very cute!
It is so cool that you edit Wikipedia, and I can’t imagine hearing that and not immediately wanting to know more about it. Some people just aren’t curious, I guess.
I 100% agree with you, Mari. When people ask what I do, sometimes I answer "I'm a nurse," and sometimes I answer "I'm a writer"--usually depending on how I'm feeling or what I'm up to. The conversations that ensue from each of those responses could not be more different, which is interesting in and of itself. And as you can imagine, the few times Arthur has described himself as a "theoretical astrophysicist" the responses vary from stunned silence to awestruck amazement. Usually he says, "I'm a physicist," which is hard enough for people to respond to. Great column! Workism indeed. Let's hear it for Lifeism and Happyism.
Ooo! I love Lifeism and Happyism! And yes, because you wear two hats careerwise, you have a very interesting opportunity to see how people respond to whichever profession you offer up. We all have our stereotypes, after all.
Btw, Arthur’s experience is reminding me of a funny story about Matt. We were on a bike trip before we got married, and the other people in the group were curious about what his job was. He didn’t like his job at the time (at an environmental consulting firm), so he was evasive. The group knew that he had a PhD in math, spoke Russian, and lived in DC. They all assumed he worked for the CIA! 😂
Shaken not stirred. If only Matt loved martinis.
I went to a Thanksgiving once and a man brought his elderly mother. I noticed she wasn't interacting with anyone. I sat next to her and asked her about her son and she told me she'd come from China with her husband and set up a laundry to put son through school. She talked and talked. She was wonderful. At the end of the evening the man thanked me for putting up with the old lady. I told him it was fun talking with her (it was). Everyone is interesting even if their kids don't think so.
What a lovely story! You and the mom were both the winners in this interaction, and maybe in the way home the son asked, “What were you talking about all that time?” and then his mom could share a story or two.
I'm so glad you tackled this article. Wife wonders why I subscribe to New York Magazine and when this issue arrived, I was starting to see her point. Eyes rolled to back of my head fo 43, 44 , 52. Feel like the print issue had even different ones than the online version but not worth effort to cross check.
Biggest disappointment was still no right answer to #120 "Even when a kids’ party says “no gifts,” you’re supposed to bring a gift."
Still trying to solve the puzzle of how to throw a party for my kids without being inundated with more crap.
That etiquette article was so out of touch with the lives of most of even New York Magazine readers!
As for your kids’ parties issue, I hear you. Our kids always got so much stuff they didn’t need, which we just added to the piles in the basement playroom. I used to fantasize about putting a line on the invitations to the effect of “No gifts! We mean it! If you bring a gift we are throwing it down the sewer!” Obviously I never did that, but a real way to channel guests’ gift-buying impulses might be to have your child pick a charity and say that in lieu of gifts, guests could make a donation. I never tried this, though, so I have no idea if it would work.
Love all of these suggestions, when I was asked about what my son's were doing and I explained that Matt was an actor and Ian worked at a major airport as a supervisor, the response was " I bet you are disappointed" I asked what joy they experience with their kids... Then explained that my kids happiness on their journey brings me joy. They were able to see there is nothing but joy for my boys, and we're able to express joy about their kids. I try extremely hard to not talk to much about my kids, they went on for quite some time, thinking of joy within their family, which has turned into a great friend with whom I get to share wonderful stories about our kids.
My jaw dropped at the idea that someone could say you were disappointed in your kids! But I love the way you turned it around to talk about joy, and that instead of turning on them angrily (which I definitely would have done), you gave them a chance to reflect on the joy in their own lives with their kids.
Love this! Since most people have no clue what to say when I tell them I’m a stay at home mom or say something along the lines of -- oh cool so you get to watch a lot of tv!? 🤪 Thanks for this piece!
At least they aren’t accusing you of watching soap operas and eating bon bons! 🙄
Thank you! As usual, you’ve inspired two new things I will start doing, like asking different and fun questions at the start of my webinars vs same old, same old.
As always,
Amy
So cool! I would love to hear about what happens!